8 Year Old Kills Dog With BBQ Fork. Whose Fault Is It?
Dara from Readily A Parent believes it’s the fault of the parents.
As she writes in her column for The Western Star, ‘it takes callous, ongoing disregard for supervising and teaching your child respect for others and how to behave in public to earn you the crappy parent award in my books.’
The dog in question was a pomeranian, a tiny little dog, tied up in the owners backyard. It was a warm summer night in Newfoundland, Canada, and the owners left their dog tied up to the washing line. When they went outside in the morning the dog was dead on the end of it’s lead. A postportem found that the dog had died of blunt force trauma.
A neighbour came forward to say ‘she had seen a young child with a red-handled instrument beating the ground, what she thought was the ground.’
The boy, eight years old, later admitted to the police to beating the dog to death with a BBQ fork.
This boy, allegedly, was known to the neighbourhood and had done things like ripping up flower beds and throwing stones at neighbourhood children and had been in trouble for taking a pocket knife to school.
As he is only eight years old he can not be punished for this crime and the case has been passed on to social services.
As an eight year old boy though, should he be punished? Is this, as many commentors on Dara’s article say, a psychopath in the making, sure to become a killer when he grows up, or is he just a boy doing what boys do who hasn’t been taught bounderies and respect by his parents?
Does blame lie with those responsible for guiding him through life – his parents? Or can the parents not be held responsible for something an eight year old does when not under their supervision?
Story in The National Post
I'm Heather, an ex expat, now back in blighty and living in Lancashire. Which is just like Lapland only less snowy...and stuff.
Blame lies a little on both. He should have been supervised. He should not have had access to the fork. He should have been taught not to poke/stab living things – it is instinctive for kids to do that; it should be as instinctive for the parents to teach them otherwise to override that. As for the 8 year old… well, at 8 you know right from wrong. You know when something is in pain and unhappy. There is a such a things as personal responsibility even for a child. But that is not the same as the child being punished. Merely accepting what they have done is wrong.
very wise words! I think at 8 that yes you do know right from wrong, but at the same time, if you haven't been taught that actions have consequences etc, I guess it's not such a big leap from poking it to see what will happen to smacking it hard enough to kill. I guess.
If I'm not mistaken, in France, the parents are held responsible. They have to pay fines, get parenting classes and eventually they get their children's benefits taken away from them. If you hit those bad parents in the pocket, maybe, just maybe, they might learn to control their children. Maybe it's too late too. I think some people shouldn't be parents at all. That being said, some children are out of control too, no matter what the parents do.
That is a very good diea! Hold the parents accountable, after all it is they
that are responsible for the childs upbringing. and if the child really is
out of control, it is they that should be seeking help for the child.
Fuck that's one screwed up kid – something has to have gone wrong somewhere in his emotional development – seriously wrong. Empathy emerges along with theory of mind usually at around the age of 5, I'm not saying it's necessarily innate but FFS evolution alone would suggest that caring is adaptive behaviour, otherwise we'd be extinct! Obviously there are people who's tendencies are not what evolution would consider adaptive and a social species such as ourselves usually finds ways to deal with behaviour so far from the normative. A civilised society certainly has obstacles to overcome when doing so tho – I dunno what the answer is or even if anyone's to blame, some people are just wired differently and no amount of nurture can change that. I swear neither of my boys so much as possess an amygdala – their apparent lack of experiential learning certainly suggests otherwise!
It's a horrible reality of some groups in society. I cannot understand how an 8 yr old can be filled with so much hate. It has to be hate, surely? He wouldn't have done it for fun? Shudder. Unfortunately, these are the hall marks of a sociopath. So what now? What happens to that child, the one who is bad already, at 8 yrs old?
Wow, heartbreaking and difficult. I did a parenting course many moons ago with trained professionals who taught us that kids know basic 'right from wrong' by the age of 7, that they have learned their most important rules by that age and that everything beyond that is just an expansion of lessons already learned.
So I guess the parents can be blamed for those lessons not being taught well. To me though, the boy sounds a little unhinged, and there may be deeper psychological problems than those closest to him could ever have imagined.
Not a black and white situation, methinks.
That is so disturbing. If it was a toddler I might think differently (probably not because even a toddler would see when they're hurting an animal) but an 8 year old know's damn well what they're doing. Animal cruelty makes me so angry and I do believe it stems from parents not teaching kids to respect them, perhaps this boy had seen his parents mistreat the dog too?
I don't believe children are born evil, I think their upbringing and relationships play a huge part in whether or not they grow up with psychopathic tendancies. I hope the child gets help x
Sorry just realised that comment was full of typos and bad grammer – I was writing quickly before my wonky connection stops x
I am a firm believer in behaviour breeds behavior and this little boy, as yes 8 is still little must have learned thos from somewhere. It is very upsetting, how did he get a BBQ fork in the first place. Sad indeed
8 year olds know right from wrong and are perfectly capable of making choices to do either. An 8 year old would be well able to get his hands on an implement that parents had hidden or put away so there is only so much a parent can do. The responsibility lies with both parents and child, imo. The responsibility of the parents now is to ask for help in creating a structured environment with consequences for their child.
The other side of this is that the child may not be naughty, or the parents 'bad', the child might have ADHD and or an impulse control disorder. That is not to say that children with ADHD do 'bad' things, but they do have impulse control issues. One thing you can be sure of, we only know some of the details, there is a lot more going on there than we will ever know!
Jen
Man, wait till I tell my editor my column had made international fame. Wonder if I'll get a raise from that?
I have to say, I'm not certain that the parent's behaviour caused the child's behaviour. It is possible the child is a sociopath, has a mood disorder or a conduct control proble. However, the parents (the father actually) were not unaware of the fact that their child was troubled. And they failed to provide adequate supervision, They failed to seek out help for their child.
On June 04th, the night the dog ws killed, it was a school night. The neighbour who reported seeing the child “Stabbing at the ground” also mentioned in a radio interview that it was dark. I can't say precisely what time it would have turned dark, but it was certainly after 9:00pm. So this child was out, after 9:00pm on a school night. That alone smacks of lack of supervision.
And what of the neighbour? There are children in my neighbourhood I know are trouble. If I ever see them doing anything out of the ordinary, I stop and see what they are doing, talk to them if neccessary, talk to their parents if I have to. Just yesterday I spoke to two boys who were throwing rocks at a neighbour's house. Why did this neighbour not stop to see what was happening. What excuses us from being vigilant around other people's children.
I don't think the blame is 100% the father's but it is definitely where the majority of the blame lies. To say “there's nothing I can do with him” is foolish. All he had to do was keep him inside or keep an eye on him.
Some blame rests with the community. This community and school saw that this child was engaging in risky and dangerous behaviours and did nothing to report him or stop him.
Some blame rests with whatever possible mental illness the child may have.
The rest, if there is any left to be apportion, belongs squarely on the shoulders of a young, ignored, demonised child. And whatever blame we, as a society, decide to lay on him, rests squarely on OUR shoulders for washing our hands of these kinds of situations.
I read this early this morning. But had to chew on it all day. Ultimately, the fault does lie with the parents. 1) there's been issues with this child before and 2) by the age of 8 he should have developed empathy for living creatures. Now whether this child was just born this way, or if it is a result of an “event(s)” in his life that has caused it – we don't know. But either way, this child needs serious help.
Unless the boy has a mental illness, his behaviour is wrong, still at this age I firmly believe that something in the socialisation process has gone seriously wrong. Parents, school and the general community of people he's been in touch with have not set clear boundaries or examples of positive behaviour. Children aren't bad. They try out boundaries but they aren't bad. It's easy to blame a child though that's why it's necessary to be very careful – because a lot has to go wrong for something like this to happen and the responsibility rarely lies with just one person.
I think Dara is absolutely right in this case, actually. If the 8 year old child has been in trouble before, simply letting him roam the neighborhood freely without any sort of supervision is grounds for criminal action in my book. Sadly, we're kind of dealing with this same thing in my neighborhood right now, and the child in question is 8 years old and his parents are DEFINITELY responsible. In fact, they encourage him to be what he is and he's a psychopath 100%. The child in the story, his parents should have been on top of this right from the get go, and they have obviously never taught him any values or morals. There is ONE tiny flaw though. Psychopaths aren't made…….they're born. I fully believe that killers and criminal minds aren't a result of environment. Sometimes, it's the ones you least expect, the ones from church, who are the psychos. Even if his parents DID teach him values and morals, there's nothing that says he still wouldn't grow up to be a psycho. But, since the child is a minor, has already had problems, and was roaming around the neighborhood freely without a care in world…..they're liable.
I think Dara is absolutely right in this case, actually. If the 8 year old child has been in trouble before, simply letting him roam the neighborhood freely without any sort of supervision is grounds for criminal action in my book. Sadly, we're kind of dealing with this same thing in my neighborhood right now, and the child in question is 8 years old and his parents are DEFINITELY responsible. In fact, they encourage him to be what he is and he's a psychopath 100%. The child in the story, his parents should have been on top of this right from the get go, and they have obviously never taught him any values or morals. There is ONE tiny flaw though. Psychopaths aren't made…….they're born. I fully believe that killers and criminal minds aren't a result of environment. Sometimes, it's the ones you least expect, the ones from church, who are the psychos. Even if his parents DID teach him values and morals, there's nothing that says he still wouldn't grow up to be a psycho. But, since the child is a minor, has already had problems, and was roaming around the neighborhood freely without a care in world…..they're liable.
I like that you reposted Dara's column. This is such a serious issue and such a heated one. I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote over at Dara's column but I do want to say that this story has definitely made me think hard about responsibility in general. What we are all responsible for. When we become responsible. And how much responsibility we owe the world. I think I mostly agree with the idea that the parents are most responsible in cases like this. But of course there are other factors like mental illness that can play a part. Also, most children that are violent come from violent families. And those parents were raised in violence as well. When does the cycle end? In the comments below several people mentioned the community's responsiblity. I think this is really a great point because it does take a village to raise a child. And we all need to remember that we are part of one great big human family and we need to watch out and care for each other, whether we are biologically related to each other or not. Thank you for continuing this important conversation, Heather and Dara. I love you guys.
I saw recently (can't remember where) something about a report/experiment
done in NYC. they, i assume got a child actor to play at being lost and
alone on the streets to see what the reaction of the people would be. One
guy apparently saw her and refused to go near her because he was worried
about being accused of paedophilia. I only skim read as was in a hurry but
that was gist.
Very worrying state of affairs in my book.
Well I think someone needs to help that child! Sadly it is too late to help the dog, but the child is crying out for help. Yes the boy may have a disorder or some kind – my 9-yr old with Aspergers has problems with impulse control, especially when he is angry – but does that mean he should be kept in the house at all times as one of your posters seems to suggest? I don't think so
But on at the same time, it's clearly not right to have him out prowling the
streets at night with his family having no idea where he is. I really hope
he gets the help he needs now.
This little 8 year old boy should of been supervised by a parent, babysitter or any other adult figure because this dog wouldn't be dead right now. Actions like this could go on for him murdering a person maybe sometime when he gets older.I am glad that Social Services are involved in this matter and his parents should be under investigation too.
this is awfull.. the child must have known this was wrong, as the dog must have been screaming with pain.. punishment must be with both parties I’m afraid as at 8 years old I would have known where my boys where and if they would have been out after dark – they would have been up to no good.. it’s soo sad that this sort of thing is occurring more often than not..