Is There Ever A Case For Banning A Book?
There has been a lot of uproar on the internet this week over the selling of a book on Amazon called The Pedophiles Guide To Love and Pleasure, which, judging from the extracts that have been posted in the forum and the authors own comments on the same forum, is a guide for those with a sexual interest in children explaining how to carry out their fantasies without getting caught or avoiding those long jail terms if they do, and contains gems such as using finger cots for condoms on children under 12.
It’s not the only ‘pedophile’ book on Amazon, there are several others including Understanding Loved Boys and Boy Lovers and Could They All Have Been Wrong but none of the others seem to have come under the same ferocity of attack. Unlike these others this was a self published ebook.
People are calling for a boycott of Amazon, many saying that they will never buy anything from Amazon for as long as this book is on sale, calling for Amazon to remove it from their website and stop peddling such filth. And whilst I agree, a book like this is both sickening and disturbing, I can’t help but wonder at the call to have it removed. Is demanding having certain books removed from Amazon something we really ought to be doing?
Yes this book is morally reprehensible and all us parents live in fear of someone of the sort that would find this book useful getting their filthy hands on our children. I am not by any stretch of the imagination making a case for this book, or other books like it, but is it really for us to demand what is and isn’t sold? If enough people use their voice and get a book removed from being sold from the largest book seller on the planet, wouldn’t it be simply opening the flood gates?
Where would Amazon, and companies like it, draw the line? How would they make their decisions on what to sell and what not to? Should they base they decisions on books that promote illegal activity? Concentrate strictly on books that may cause harm to children? Or would a book have to have x amount of complaints before it was removed? Assuming that they were to start censoring what they do and don’t sell, how would they regulate it?
If they removed it because it was promoting illegal activity then would they then be obligated to remove all other books promoting illegal activity, books such as The Anarchists Cookbook, The Blasters Handbook and The Cannabis Grow Bible? Or would they be able to decide which illegal activity they promoted and which they didn’t?
If they made a stand and said they would remove every book that was potentially harmful to children, would they be obligated to remove all books on abortion, say? Or would they be able to keep purely to books on pedophilia?
And if it were based on protests and boycotts, how would they decide which protest was worthy and which wasn’t? If enough people protested against homosexual literature and threatened to boycott would they remove it? What about Muslim texts that upset the crazies that think all Muslims are terrorists, or cookbooks that have meat recipes that some vegetarians and vegans find offensive?
It may sound like I’m being flipant, like I’m comparing growing pot, having an abortion or being gay or Muslim to being a pedophile, but really I’m not. What I’m saying is that there are large groups of people out there that believe in some things very strongly, as strongly as you feel against pedophilia, and if they thought they could convert the rest of us, even just through censorship, they would jump at the opportunity. If we set a precedence by getting one book banned, really how long is it before the same tactics are used to get rid of texts that another group of people find offensive? If Amazon remove a book because an uproar has occurred about it, would they not find themselves dealing with uproar after uproar each week because people know that if they shout loud enough, get enough people involved to write angry reviews and forum posts, that Amazon would cave and remove it? Or should Amazon be expected only listen to what you find offensive and ignore everyone else?
Is there a case to remove this book? To have it banned, made illegal even, as some people are calling for? Yes its subject matter is vile but I’m not at all comfortable with the idea of having a book made illegal. How close to committing thought crimes is that? It is not illegal to read or even write a book about committing crimes of pedophilia, just as it is not illegal to think about killing someone nor read a book on the methods of how to kill someone, grow drugs or make a bomb. Because thoughts are not a crime, ideas are not a crime, neither are fantasies or desires. Acting on them however can be.
As a parent I hate the idea that something like this is available, the same as I hate the idea that there are pedophiles out there that would commit these crimes against our children, it fills me both with a cold dread and a hot rage and yet, banning a book, forcing a company to remove something because enough people dislike it, well, it does make me worry where something like that would lead. And isn’t there a case for having books like this out in the open where the people that buy them can be monitored rather than them being underground? Because don’t be fooled, a company like Amazon removing a book will not stop it being sold, it will simply move it to places less likely to be found out about by the likes of us that are not involved in the seedy and sickening world of pedophilia.
The book won’t cease to exist, pedophiles wont cease to exist and I’m willing to bet my life that there are other books, sold underground, that are far worse, far more explicit and dangerous than this. This book isn’t going to turn a person into a child molestor, in is unlikely that any pedophile would actually download and read it off Amazon as they would have to give Amazon their personal details and could be traced, and before the whole thing blew up into a big media hoohaa, it had sold exactly 1 copy.
What do you think? Should this book be removed, banned, made illegal even, for discussing ways of committing pedophilia? Or should there never be a case for banning a book? Because you can’t have it both ways, either it’s okay to ban books on certain topics, or it’s not.
Is there a case for having books like this made more openly public, where perhaps the purchaser could be monitored, or is having them in public places running the risk of desensitising and normalising the subject?
NB The book has since been removed from Amazon which leaves me feeling a little cold and worried about what, in say a years time, other boycotting groups will have managed to have had removed. Banning something hateful and terrible is one step, but then the same tactics are used to ban something slightly less hateful and terrible, and then slightly less, and so on until we find ourselves being told we can’t read the latest thriller because in it a terrorist blows up a bus and it could be used as a plan for real terrorists.
I'm Heather, an ex expat, now back in blighty and living in Lancashire. Which is just like Lapland only less snowy...and stuff.
I think there is real difference here bewtween topics that should be banned or not.
This book should never had made it to the virtual shelves, someone should had seen it and said ‘no way we’re not selling this’
Pedophiles are scum and anything written to promote such disgusting behavior should be banned regardeless of whether banning books is an issue.
I think if someone published a ‘how to beat your wife up’ book or a ‘kill your friend in 10 steps’ a smiliar responce would be given.
The book should never have been allowed on the site, full stop and if it took and army of angry parents to get it down then that’s what it takes.
Yes it could open the floodgates for more things to be banned, but to be honest in this case i couldn’t be hooped xxx
You’d give away freedom of speech for the sake of a book that had sold 1 copy and was pretty much unknown until someone pointed it out and the hoohaa started?
What about all the other books on pedophilia out there? What about the books that show people how to make bombs or kill people? where does the line get drawn? Is it possible for society to have just 1 book removed and then be happy or will this keep going on and on? And to what end?
I was just reading that sales of the book went ballistic after the story broke and it got the expose of main stream media.
I understand your point and I agree that it’s a tough one but pedophilia to me is easily distinguished from the other topics. I don’t think it should have ever made the shelves. I have no problem with Amazon taking the line of “we don’t sell books on pedophilia”.
Brave post, I enjoyed reading it.
Kirsty (shamozal)
Cheers Kirsty. If I thought that we could ban all books on pedophilia and that would be the end of it, there would be no follow up to it, no further banning of other subjects, of other books and topics not being added to that list as time went on, then I might agree. But I don’t believe that such rational thinking would take place. It might do in your mind, but, sadly, you are not the powers that be and their minds work in a very different way.
As it stands at the moment, if we truly want to live in a world where people are free to express their feelings and thoughts -which isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime- then we also have to accept that people are free to write about things which disgust and revolt us, don’t we?
I can kind of see where Amy is coming from. Heaven knows I am against books being banned, burnt or bowdlerized… but what alarms me here is the lack of “quality control” if you like from Amazon’s end. They’ve left themselves unbelievably wide open to this kind of misuse through their book publishing service. That people can publish anything they like these days from the comfort of their own home on their own PC’s – even without the help of Amazon et al – means the chances of censoring any kind of information these days is nigh on impossible. But that fact a big company whose name will be linked to books it publishes via its own portals seems to not care enough to check the content or subject matter of those books is very stupid. Imagine if Amazon had been used to publish a Do It Yourself Terrorist Guide… the scandal and political fall-out would have been even bigger. And what’s to stop someone publishing such a book?
I agree entirely with the lack of quality control. Amazon should be watching what comes through their websites and making a decision on what should and shouldn’t be allowed. And I have no issue with Amazon wanting to do that, that’s not censorship, that’s Amazon being sensible.
However, when Amazon have looked at it and made a statement that they will not be removing it and then do a 180 when the pressure gets too much, that’s censorship, that is people influencing what they think should and shouldn’t be sold, isn’t it? and I think that’s a dangerous thing – now it’s happened once, where will it end? It worries me.
And Amazon do have books on sale on ow to make bombs and blow things up. No-one is protesting against those yet.
If no one had mentioned this book publicly, millions of people would be none the wiser and it would have sat on the self-published shelves at Amazon probably selling a few books a year to people who know all that vile stuff anyway.
Thanks to the outcry, the last I heard it had been downloaded 101,000 times. That’s more success than the author could possibly ever have hoped for.
Should it have made it onto the shelves in the first place? Does Amazon have an obligation to read every book it sells? I doubt it. I’m not sure what its policy on self-publishing is, but the point is, with freedom of speech either you believe in it or you don’t. A bit less freedom is not freedom. It’s also the top of a very slippery slope.
The worthless piece of shit who wrote this book had a ‘right’ in the free world to write it. But the stupid idiot who publicised it should have kept his/her mouth shut. I wonder if it wasn’t one of the author’s friends. There’s nothing like scandal and free publicity for selling…
I wonder, it’s certainly made him a few quid, eh? you know, i could even understand if Amazon wanted to police what came through their self publishing route, that makes sense, but for them to one minute say they support their sale of the book in a press release and then a few hours later remove it from the shelves after enough pressure from the public worries me. If it happened over this it could happen over another book, where does it end? As you said, a little less freedom isn’t freedom. And with Amazon being the planets biggest book seller, and others probably following their lead, it’s as good as censorship, isn’t it?
A slippery slope indeed, thank you for your comment.
An interesting post Heather that I’m not surprised you’ve written as you’re no afraid to get into ‘meaty’ topics. That said, I have to say that personally I feel that the whole free speech/censorship line is widely misused.
Amazon is right to remove the book because it goes beyond the scope of being a retailer – it’s a publisher and it wields a lot of control in the marketplace. I’m about to publish a book through Amazon which I actually paid extra to have it checked. I don’t want to publish a book through someone who is a publisher of pedophile material.
Where exactly do you draw the line?
Do you think Ebay and Amazon should sell guns and knives?
Do you think when people post stuff like ‘nigger’ and other hateful term online in blog comments that we should shrug our shoulders and say ‘Ooh don’t censor them’
Comparing weed law with pedophile law is way off mark. I should add as well that for any person who has purchased a book on building bombs, how to be a terrorist or whatever, they’re not unnoticed because government agencies have the data on those purchases so actually we’re not free to buy exactly what we want.
Amazon are only learning as they go and I think that their reputation is far more important than supporting someones disgusting fantasies. It’s called weighing up your options. Some bigwig is thinking ‘Do we support someone who has sold f all books and is a sicko and alienate thousands, if not millions more, permanently damaging our reputation? Or do we remove it, review our policies, and learn that somewhere a line must be drawn?’ I think they went with the latter and if there is one less means of promoting having sex with children, good.
Amazon are perfectly entitled to decide what to sell and not sell, i have no problem with that, they are a business after all and they don’t sell every book ever printed, they can be as picky and choosy as they like. However, when they send out a press release saying that they stand by their decision and then a few hours later change their mind and remove it because of pressure from the public it worries me. Where would that lead, what is the next thing for the public to demand be removed? Which protests should Amazon listen to and which ignore? And with Amazon being the market leaders in this area, the smaller companies no doubt follow their lead, meaning that if Amazon ban something, most others will as well – is that not censorship?
Of course guns and knives are a different thing entirely from words. words are words, they may hurt, you may despise them, but they are not a crime -although sadly it seems they fast becoming one if you have watched the whole #twitterjoketrail unfold. Owning a gun or a knife can be a crime and for good reason, in the wrong hands they can kill. Words don’t kill people, words don’t turn people into pedophiles or murderers, words can not physically hurt you unless you write them on a rock and throw them at someone.
And come on, I was not comparing drugs and pedophilia, what I said was that some people feel equally as strong about them, you may find it hard to believe but it’s true, there are people out there that think drugs are evil and should be banned. should we listen to their protests and get all books on drugs removed as well? What if there are enough of them protesting, threatening to boycott amazon? should Amazon worry about their bottom line of losing all those customers and remove all the drugs books? What about the next protest and the one after that?
All I’m saying is it’s a slippery sloe, this removing of text because people demand it, a very slippery slope indeed.
Bad bad bad…. also blogged about it today. Or SawHole did.
It is a bad business all round, from the writing of it to the removing it from sale because of protest. The whole thing leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth, does it not?
I shall come and have a read x
I don’t think it should be banned. But I think Amazon can say ‘thanks but no thanks’ – we feel this over stepping boundaries. Equally, would you like to see a book that was called ‘how to rape a women and not get caught’ or ‘Bestiality for beginners’ or ’10 best Snuff video moments’ or ‘how to become a serial killer’ – there are boundaries which aren’t just about legal versus illegal but also morality – it is immoral to sexually violate children and if you are retailer you have a right to say I choose not to propagate that. Drugs are illegal but they are not immoral.
I think this is about right and wrong – not censorship.
Of course this book and the kind you mention are vile, nasty things that
I would rather not see in society but I would rather have them there and keep the freedom of speech then agree to ban them and start the erosion of our rights.
As I’ve said above, I do agree that Amazon have the right to sell what they want and make decision based on content, however, that is not what happened here. They sold it, there were protests, amazon looked at the book and then released a press release saying they stood behind their decision to sell it. And then, hours later, after enough pressure from the public, they decided to remove it. She what happened was censorship, the pubic censoring what they believe Amazon should and shouldn’t sell.
I would much rather these books didn’t exist, that they had never been written, and i agree they are very very wrong, however the fact that if enough people gather together and protest about a book, the planets biggest book seller with remove it, worries me. What’s next and where will it lead?
Of course, the ponce has a right to write about his sexual perversions and he, of course must live with the consequences of his actions, but equally retailers and publishers have a right to not publish, or sell them or promote such vile content. I think that Amazon have to be responsible for their content just like you and I do. It is their moral responsibility to say thank you but we choose not have this content on our site. It would also be nice if they handed to the information to the police and said these people were interested in this content please explore this matter in the interest of child protection. We must protect those who are unable to protect themselves. Children are vulnerable it is our moral and legal duty to provide a safe world for them to grow and prosper within.
Indeed we must, but what exactly does having this book removed from Amazon protect them from? It still exists, no doubt it’s being sold somewhere else along with 100′s of other much worse books. It wasn’t going to turn anyone into a pedophile.
I am not sticking up for the book, it’s filth, disgusting and vile filth, but what i am wondering is was it causing a threat to children being sold my Amazon (bearing in mind that 1 copy was sold in total before the media circus kicked off)and are children now somehow safer since it’s been removed?
Amazon is a commercial retailer and publisher. They are not a Govt. Govt’s ban and censor. They create laws through parliaments and senates, etc. Amazon as a r&P are condoning the book and promoting it by selling. The customers are saying we don’t want to purchase products from an organisation that thinks it’s ok to profit or propagate this kind of material. Amazon are not a Govt they are not banning the book – they make commercial decisions about what material as business they choose to commercially endorse. This is about Amazon’s sense of social and corporate responsibility not about censorship. Censorship is created by Govts. This is the distinction that needs to be understood.
no, I agree, they are not the govt and the book hasn’t been ‘banned’ and, as i said above, the book will no doubt still exist and still be being sold in other places, so what was the point? Has it made children any safer? there are still plenty of other pedophilia book for sale on amazon.
And even though Amazon are only a company it still worries me that the largest seller of books on the planet will pull books because enough people complain about them. I couldn’t give a rats ass about the book, humanity is no doubt better off without it, but where this leads is what worries me, what the next book that’s pulled will be, and the one after that and after that when enough people complain.
ahh well, what’s done is done. i guess now all we can do is wait and hope that it doesn’t cause a domino effect of books being removed from Amazon and the like. thank you for your thoughts, I do love a good debate xx
The power of social media! As Sarah says, a few years ago this would have gone by largely unnoticed but, instead, public outcry and general voyeurism has generated in the region of half a million dollars in sales for the author.
I don’t condone the book in the slightest but it did make me realise that anyone (even me) can write a book, self-publish it and offer it for download on Kindle!
The power of social media, indeed. In interesting experiment, but not sure how thrilled i am about the results.
And yes, as an aside, it opened my eyes to that too.
You do make me think Missus, you really do…
I read your title and thought – of course not, we all have a right to read and write what we like, freedom of speech, blah blah blah.
But then I realised I was thinking about Mein Kampf or its like: ideas books, rather, than practical ones, perhaps. And then I read your piece and my immediate stomach turning reaction was “burn it!”
But I still, at base, think you’re right. We can’t stop these things happening by brushing them under the carpet and pretending they don’t. As you say, who’s actually going to buy this book from Amazon? It would be interesting to know what Amazon’s legal position is on reporting to the authorities anyone who did try to buy it….
I’m also interested by Nickie’s comment – half a million dollars of sales? To whom? And if from Amazon, where do they stand when they get subpoenaed for the lists of buyers?
There is another point, touched upon by other commenters though – Amazon as a bookseller has a right to sell or not sell what they like, but here they’re also the publisher. Does a “responsible” publisher have a moral duty to assess the value of the books it chooses to publish? I don’t know, but maybe Amazon will need to think about that in future.
it’s hard to stand up and say that books shouldn’t be banned when the one in question is so utterly despicable and vile. I worried about posting this at all tbh because I was afraid of coming across as supporting the book. But if that hard choice has to be made I’m happy to stand up and support anyones right, even that sick fuck that wrote this’s right to freedom of speech.
I wondered about the legal side of it too, would they be forced to disclose who bought it? Because buying and reading a book about any subject is not a crime, although i’m sure a case for possible intent could be made, and therefore do the police have any right to that information? It’s not like they can cover it with that horrendous terrorism act that allows them access to all sorts of worrying data on people without cause.
I agree that Amazon have the right to choose to sell what they want, but they only choose to remove it, even after issuing a statement saying they stood by their decision to sell it, after there was enough public pressure. So what’s the next book this happens with? It wasn’t about amazon deciding not to sell it, it was about the public pressuring them into changing their mind. It does worry me.
I’m pleased that Amazon bowed to customer pressure, they clearly realise that the customer calls the shots.
I make no apologies for wanting, and asking, for this book to be removed from sale – it is immoral to sell a book which is promoting an illegal act. What next? How to rape your granny? No, no, no.
When a world class company like Amazon cannot distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable reading material to the general public, then it’s a bad day in booksville. Is’s just not on to offer any attempts to normalise paedophilia, which in my eyes is what is happening when this sort of book is readily available on a family orientated site.
‘it is immoral to sell a book which is promoting an illegal act’
So do you believe that All books promoting ANY illegal act ought to be removed?
‘When a world class company like Amazon cannot distinguish between what is acceptable and not acceptable reading material to the general public, then it’s a bad day in booksville.’
But is it really their, or anyones place, to say what we should and shouldn’t read? Isn’t book censorship a bad thing? And if so then how can we choose to censor some and not others? Who chooses and what system do they use to gauge what is and isn’t okay for us to read?
Amazon has several other books on pedophilia, as well as books on making bombs, growing drugs, holocaust denials and all sorts of unpleasant stuff. None of these are things i would consider appropriate for my children to read but I still understand that other people, grown ups, have the right to chose to read them or not.
I’m not defending the book, it’s vile filth, I am worried about censorship and where it will lead us.
I think Amazon does have a duty of care to its customers, yes, specifically when it’s about books promoting illegal acts. This sort of book will always be available on the internet *somewhere* but I don’t want it on the virtual bookshelf next to books that my children might read. I’d liken it to going to Tescos and finding some guns on display next to the sliced bread I *know* I can buy a gun if I really wanted to, I just don’t want to have to see them in a normal, everyday setting. Similarly, would we want this book on sale in Waterstones bookshop? i think there has to be safeguards in place to avoid this ‘normalisation’ of illegal acts. Does that make any sense, or do you think I’m slightly right of Atilla?
I agree that censorship is a danger
it’s such a hard issue isn’t it? It’s funny you mention guns in the supermarket because here in Finland you can buy guns in the supermarkets, it’s perfectly normal. funny how somethings that seem extreme to some are normal in other countries, isn’t it?
In a perfect world books like this nor the people that perpetrate such crimes wouldn’t exist. Trouble is we dont have such a perfect world and we have to find a way for us all to live in the one we do have together. fucking hard at times though.
Oooh, really? Guns in the supermarket. I was going to say vibrators first of all, then i realised that you’ve mentioned that before
Yes, it’s a very difficult subject – very hard to define where the line should be drawn and of course most of us view it all subjectively.
I do agree with MMM, Amazon were condoning the book by selling it. It’s a moral stance, and I do expect such a company to make that distinction between ‘acceptable’ and ‘unacceptable’ to the everyday buying public.
Very interesting post Heather.
It was brave of you to bring this one to the blog Heather. Personally I think these sick people should not be given any rights to publish their beliefs and practices as it desensitizes society from the seriousness of their perversion just by such a book having reached publication. Acceptance of peodophiles at any level is abhorrent to me.
Should not be given the right? Oh no, please don’t say that, we all have the right, that is what freedom of speech is all about. If we remove one groups right, where does it stop, which group will be next?
It might not seem like much until it snowballs and suddenly the group losing their right to write about what they want is your group, and who is going to stick up for your rights?
Pedophilia and everything that surrounds it is vile and repulsive, but just as we can’t round them all up and shoot them, we can not silence them and take away their right to freedom of speech.
It’s a really interesting debate, I watched the contraversy unfolding and wondered whether Amazon would stick to their initial stance or cave to the protests. Personally, I’m glad they pulled it. I agree with above comments that it’s a question of morality, I wouldn’t equate a book on how to abuse children with a book on growing cannabis.
As far as this being a worrying sign that public protest could lead to censorship, I think it unlikely that this type of immediate / vociferous outcry would happen without a similar prompt. Do you think people would be RTing, hashtagging, etc if it hadn’t been about paedophilia?
I keep changing my mind. I think something like: to publish it: NO NO NO! to stock it: maybe OK???
Interesting article here though http://www.bnet.com/blog/technology-business/amazon-kills-one-pedophilia-book-8212-but-keeps-another/6706
I have to believe it was simply a bad decision on the part of Amazon to stock it. I’m actually stunned they did.
SICK SICK PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD WE LIVE IN
For me it isn’t about Freedom of Speech at all, it’s about perpetrating an illegal act.
If this author (I use the term in the loosest sense, shit the bloke can’t even spell!), had written a blog containing the same info, people would have reported it and the host or ISP would have removed it and the local police would be a-knocking on his door surely?
I find it bizarre that a worldwide company such as Amazon is willing to risk it’s good reputation, especially 6 weeks before Christmas, me thinks that a few heads will roll for this when they see their sales plummet.
I saw that it was still being talked about last night on their forum so I assume that it’s still for sale, I hope Amazon do the decent thing soon and remove it. Quickly, as well as I really don’t want to have to boycott them, they are a real lifeline to me.
Fascinating. Years ago, long before there were mummys with blogs
(Or at least before the being known as the mummyblogger came into existence) there was a campaign on various blogs against a book called to train up a child. The authors are fundamental Christians who advocate and discuss how to beat your child with plumbing line.
The campaign didn’t get anywhere. I don’t want to publicise the book or the authors, so I won’t link, but I will drop a link to a blog about it all, here you go.
http://docsdomain.net/blog/?p=1319
I am against censorship, because I think what happens is that you get tyranny of the majority – checking out the ALA banned books list is a huge eye opener. http://www.ala.org/ala/issuesadvocacy/banned/bannedbooksweek/index.cfm I think instead what we need is open discussion and education – shine a light on dubious practises and they won’t happen nearly as much. Create dark corners and oppression and these things will run rife.
I was one of the most vocal of the UK #BoycottAmazon contingent, and whilst I agree that Censorship is a very big thing to consider, in some cases the need is there. Clearly Amazon, who decided to ignore many customers requests for a full explanation of firstly their reasons for selling the book and later their refusal to remove it, have only monetary gain in the forefront of their minds when they chose which titles to allow to be sold.
They did say that they do sell certain books even though they do not agree with the content- but by the very nature of them selling them the message is taken, rightly or wrongly that they do in fact fully support the topic as long as they earn from it.
I didn’t just have issue with this title alone and did guide people to other titles and video of various illegal or offensive natures, such as video of girls as young as 11 in sexual poses, footage of cock and dog fighting (completely illegal in the UK for obvious reasons) and books denying the Holocaust. There are other Paedophile related books as well, including a book which lists successful assaults by the author on Paedophiles. All of these, when you consider that parents allow their children to buy from this retailer it is morally unjustifiable to have such material available for them to possibly buy.
I do think that until there is a proper, nationwide code of conduct on offensive material for all retailers, then the need for boycotts still stand.
Is There Ever A Case For Banning A Book? | Note From Lapland…
Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……
Although the First Amendment to the Constition here gives everyone a right to freedom of speech, it doesn’t cover everything. Obscenity can be an exception and Amazon might have been protected had this author tried to sue. However, the law differs from state to state so it’s very tricky.
Amazon should have not entered into the self-publishing deal with the author in the first place and none of this would have happened.
I don’t believe that the book should have been banned. If we started banning everything that was distateful, pretty soon we wouldn’t have any personal freedoms. Is the book sick? Yes. Would i have EVER heard of it without the hoopla? NO. ’nuff said
First of all, I want to say that I think you are very brave to write this post, Heather. The topic of book banning and free speech is an important one. I am not in favor of the banning of books. But I do think it is the moral responsibility of each company and or book distributor to decide what is acceptable to sell. This book, in my opinion, is not acceptable. I’m glad Amazon is not selling it anymore. But I think there is a difference between banning and not selling a book. To me banning is a government act which, as you mentioned, could quickly landslide into all sorts of controversial topics being squelched out of existence. I also think it is quite ironic that the angry fervor over this book in the media actually promoted amazing sales. Thank you for brining up this important topic. I love that you are able to broach difficult subjects like these in an intelligent and thought-provoking way.
Yeah I’m all for free speech but surely we have an obligation to protect children who can’t speak for themselves? On the other hand the book itself doesn’t have that much influence on making someone into a paedophile – there will be paedos whether or not there are books about it – I think the hysteria surrounding it had a lot to do with the question of what to do about paedophiles is so frustating. I for one would like them to have much longer sentences but I’m not prime minister and in the interim I suppose mums and dads get all angry about something like this which while vile is not as vile as actual paedophile rings etc which we are helpless to ‘ban’
It should be banned and not sold BUT there should also be a screening process in place, clearly they need someone to read them all before they are accepted. There are clearly more than just one thing they have to look for and all of them are in a “grey” area.
I think the issue is that, in the UK at least, the act itself of abusing a child is illegal, yet writing favourably about the act is not illegal. To my mind the Government needs to make that kind of literature or film about it illegal.
As for Freedom of Speech, it doesn’t always get upheld anyway, you only need look at the Robin Hood airport tweet controversy to see that, at that stage, that mans right to Freedom of Speech and censorship wasn’t even thought of, but here, writing a guide on getting away with and justifying an illegal activity, no action bar removing the book is taken, and Amazon are happy to take money fro customers, but consistently fail to justify their own behaviour to those same customers.
I applaud you for writing this post, it’s a tough topic and people have very strong views. Very brave of you (as others have said).
However, I’m quite an advocate of censorship. IMO it should be illegal to publish books of this nature (or ones encouraging terrorism/rape/etc) because it could so easily get in to the wrong hands. What if someone has these thoughts but hasn’t acted on them because they fear the law, the read this book and think “wow, I can do it and get away with it” and suddenly yet more children are put at risk. Freedom of speech is not worth the lives of our children. I would much rather be safe than free.
*prays not to be flamed*
I think thats one of the major points that the Freedom of speech argument hasn’t covered. My daughter is 3 and a half, and tells me alot that she loves me. To her, thats a word that means I smile and it makes me happy (and give her sweets on occasions too!). The text in the book tells a paedophile that the easiest way to avoid detection is to convince the child they wish to abuse that they are lucky because its the adults way of showing love. To my daughter at such a young age, sadly I think she’d be taken in by it, and that frightens me. But we are in a position whereby she is far too young to understand that someone doing things of that nature to her are not right, how do you explain that to a child her age? So the other argument I’ve seen cropping up that parents have an obligation to educate their child is all good until you think of children as young as under 6 who its very difficult to educate about sex and whats right and wrong. We have enough children having babies and I think sometimes we teach them too young, but some children just wouldn’t be old enough to understand. There seems to be a misunderstanding for some of the freedom of speech people that Paedophiles don’t just pick on older children, some pick on much younger children, presumably to make it easier to attack as the mind of a younger child has only a basic grasp of right and wrong.
I agree with most of the others. It’s a sad day when a company like Amazon are selling such disgusting filth. As for your view that we have left ourselves open to more censorship, blah blah, I think that’s just not going to happen. Paedophilia is something that nearly every person in the world finds disgusting, vile & abhorrent. I think people were absolutely right to make a stink about it, and I couldn’t give a stuff if some are worried now about what else will be censored. Paedophillia has to be the lowest you can go, so Amazon were completely right to get rid of the book. And as for the publicity generated for the bloke, he’s going to be watched a lot more carefully by the authorities now, isn’t he? And other little children will be saved, because the man’s clearly a paedophile himself.
Heather, I was aware of this controversy, as I suspect many others with an online presence were. It’s a really tricky one, I’m not a big fan of censorship, which I don’t think Amazon did, but I’m also not a massive fan of about turns like this either. As you say, this book is absolutely vile to all of us, but what if something was equally vile to another group of people but we were in favour of it?
You’re such a good writer Heather, you do make us all think!
Tina xx
Personally, I found this book useful.
I found several copies in my local Barnes & Noble and used them to stand on so I could reach a copy of ‘Catch 22′ on a very high shelf.
I’m not much for censorship either; as a lover of comedy the lines must be very blurred at times, however some things are always wrong and this is one of them.
I say…burn the publisher’s premises down…
@ Fingers…I like your style
Well I’m with you Heather.
It’s not Amozon’s place to act as censor, and this book would have been all but unknown without the torches and the pitchforks of twitter.
Avitable wrote an interesting post on this:
http://www.avitable.com/2010/11/11/about-pedophilia-and-censorship/
I was pretty uncomfortable with the mass hysteria around this, but i got shouted down pretty hard. I totally agree with you. I felt sick even reading your one example of what was written in there, i think it is vile and disgusting, so i wouldn’t buy it. Neither would i give it the time of day by giving it a shed load of publicity. Do people really believe that by selling this book amazon is going to turn a whole load of “normal” people into predatory paedophiles, as if all they’ve been waiting for is some choice nuggets of information as to how to do it and not get caught? Let’s be honest about it, they could get that from any paedophile website out there, they wouldn’t need to waste their money.
M2M
http://news.aol.co.uk/world-news/story/paedophile-guide-author-charged/1475236?icid=main|uk|dl1|link6|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.co.uk%2Fworld-news%2Fstory%2Fpaedophile-guide-author-charged%2F1475236